Red Deland Deck

[haroldross]

Today I got a red Deland Automatic Deck. I wanted one to go with the standard blue deck.

A word or two of warning here. Apparently the newer Magic Maker Deland Decks are printed in China and not by the United States Playing Card Company. The quality of these cards are better than when they were printed in Taiwan but nowhere near the quality of the ones printed in Belgium (by Cartamundi). Even the ones printed by the USPCC are far superior to the Chinese printed cards. Don't expect to make any XCM moves with these.

You will also notice that included instruction sheet only references the stripper deck feature and marked card feature. It is kind of funny that on the back of the packaging it makes reference to the 12.000 marks for determining the location of any card, the stripper feature and the stack. The cards come in the new deck order of: Joker, A-K of Spades, A-K of Hearts, A-K of Clubs, A-K of Diamond, and the last Joker. Even the online video doesn't tell you any more than is on the included instruction sheet.

If you do get one of these decks and would like a complete set of instructions, just PM me and I'll send you a PDF of the instructions from the Cartamundi printing. The instruction sheet is nearly identical to the original instruction sheet with the addition of the stripping feature which was not a feature on the original Deland Dollar Deck.

I would recommend trying to find the Cartamundi printing of this deck or the USPCC printing of this deck. The USPCC comes with a great little book and a set of 3-Card Monte cards, another idea from Theodore Deland.

[Misjief]

H-

My magic shop sells them as well (not sure of the source) I thought about getting one but thought they were a little too obvious as a gaff deck? I think it is like 6 buck a deck and I have both red and blue for an option.

What is your thoughts on it? I thought you were not a big fan of gaff decks?
Why the two different colored decks?

I am rather interested in your thoughts - and am not just throwing stuff out there to garner some more post for the forum.

-misj-

[haroldross]

misj-

Gaff decks have there place and I'm not against using them at times. As a collector of magic memorabilia especially the items that Theodore Deland created. I have my hopes up that I will be able to find one of the original Deland Dollar Decks in very good or sealed condition. I have an excellent first edition version from the S.S. Adams Company.

I find the Deland Automatic Playing Card Deck to be a piece of beauty and art. I have often wondered why no one has printed an ungaffed Deland's Deck.

I have found that suspicion drops considerably in the eyes of spectators if they think they have a choice- hence having a red and a blue deck to choose from, really helps out. The mind is a strange thing.

$6.00 for a deck like the Deland Deck may or may not be worth it. For me, it is nice to have both color decks. I may never use them in my bigger shows but for smaller groups I can foresee using them.

Sometimes in a social setting people will recognize the deck and say, 'I used to have one of those decks when I was a kid.' That creates a great segue way into performing some card magic without the use of marked cards.

[Misjief]

H-

I had a blow out at work and needed some fun so I took the day off to visit the magic store. I picked up a Swami I have been wanting and while I was at it I remembered your post and grabbed a Deland Automatic Deck (from china). while I did remember your post I did forget the exact contents of it. LOL

I don't do flourishes so the quality of the cards is adequate but they come in factory order rather then setup ... And the included instructions are woefully inadequate. As you said the instructions include a very basic guide to the use of a stripper deck ("They are tappered" LOL) and a guide to the marking code of the first clock revealing the card's face. That is it.

There is no mention of the stacked system the rest of the clocks are based on nor their additional features. To be honest I have no idea how functional those marking actually are, but based on the contents of the box I purchased I be far better off with a simple stripper/marked deck because the huge liability of all the 1200 markings offers me no advantage what so ever.

Note: I found the original instructions in pdf format here and because you have to have the deck to make use of them I have no qualms about posting the link here.

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I plan on printing a set and giving them to my magic dealer for the benefit of the next guy, especially since that fellow is likely to be a young newb. The pdf is a little grainy therefore the pic of the stack is very difficult to read ...

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For me it wasn't all that big a deal as I enjoyed doing the research and learning about the origins of the deck and the like, But I can't imagine a young budding magi feeling anything other then disappointment and that truly bothers me.

***

Anyway I bought the deck BECAUSE I am thinking about trying to mark a standard bicycle deck using a similar but obviously modified system. The eight petaled pinwheels located just off the four corners of the cards beg for just such a treatment. Rather then use the clock coding system [12+] I plan on replacing it with binary [0-12]; a dot over one of the four place holders can represent the suits. By dividing the each pair* of pinwheels in half I have four divining locations (the top and bottom pairs match).

Here is where I could use some suggestions... What info shall I track?

The FIRST location reveals the FACE of the card.
The SECOND location reveals the BOTTOM CARD.

I think I will use the third and fourth to track the RED cards - the BLACK ones can be calculated by simply doing a comparison of the the suit tops [points - spades & diamonds vrs rounds - Clubs and Hearts]. If the tops are the SAME SUBTRACT 3 otherwise Add 3.

I could possibly track one red suit and divining the other by adding or subtracting 6 to free up a divining location but what would I use it to track? I am not sure how knowing the number of cards in a cut is useful.

Anyways there are my thoughts on it - Any thoughts or insights?

-misj-

[haroldross]

misj-

I can provide higher resolution scan of the instructions if anyone is interested. The PDF you refer to is probably printed from a sheet from the 60's to 70's. The original sheets were printed on tinted paper and usually the 'stripper deck' feature had a separate instruction sheet. For a while the decks were available with or without a taper. I still prefer the Belgian printing without a taper.

As far as marking the Bicycle deck, binary is a good way to go. It offers flexibility plus even if the marks are seen, they are harder to figure out. The Deland Deck is usually stacked in a variation of the Si Stebbins Stack. So once stacked that way, it is easy to place the cards in the right location.

I'm going to throw you a curve ball here. It sounds like you want to mark the cards along the top and bottom. I prefer to mark the cards along the sides. That way in a ribbon spread, the cards can be read. Marking the cards showing the card value, the card before and the card after would be primary. Then I would mark color. If you use a diamond formation for suit, the top and bottom could be one color and the left and right could be another color. I would like to quickly be able to separate the colors. If you are going to mark your own deck and stack it, devise your own stack. If you are going binary, then you have a mathematical slant so I would use Osterlind's Breakthrough Card System (BCS) stack. Easy to memorize or quick to calculate the previous or next card and even the location of any card.

One of the neatest Deland Marked Decks is the 'Nifty Deck'. Each card back is different. When you 'take it to the movies', it is quite confusing. so many marks (dots) and most of them are meaningless. See attached picture.

[Misjief]

H-

I had to screw around a bit to figure it out but it is a Si Stebbins Stack... When I first did it I had the order reversed as if I stacked them face up when I should have had them face down or vice versa.

I was playing with the deck and I am now not sure I really want or NEED the markings for the card before or after the top card BECAUSE I can figure it out in my head faster then I can read an additional code. I was using the method I came up with before and verifying it with the cards. I bought the deck primary as a learning tool but found I don't really need it.

I found I was mistaken on the red black piece of it and will have to come back to discuss it as I have to run so expect another post soon

-misj-